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As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. "It has a clear capacity to fire without the trigger being pulled under certain conditions," said Hilton's lawyer, Jeffrey Bagnell. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. There are tens of millions of gun owners, far more than there are cops, and the VAST majority of those folks buy their guns and drop them a nightstand drawer or up on a closet shelf and leave it until theyre needed. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. Theyre the only product that is not. Who knows. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. Here is a movie that he filmed 40 years ago and he was still raking it in. Now when you lose your grip on lawn mowers or snow blowers they will not keep travelling foreword all by themselves. Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . Good job! They simply have never been seen in the upper echelon of handgun makers, their entire business model is to offer cheaper guns at cheaper prices. Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. It did not originally have this. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! (a) A person commits an offense if the person recklessly discharges a firearm inside the corporate limits of a municipality having a population of 100,000 or more. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! If the latter were to occur, the drop safety would prevent discharge because it would not be pushed up by anything. I continue to bet my life on them. Yaaay! The problem is non-existent. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. He said there has to be something wrong with the gun if this is happening to individuals with this amount of training, this amount of skill.. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. No picture for me. Nope. Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. That focus drifts. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when its pointed at an extremity? TAMPA, Fla., July 27, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- A 30-year veteran law enforcement officer with the Tampa Police Department (TPD) today filed a lawsuit against Sig Sauer, Inc., the maker of his. Ron, But it also has much worse quality control on the parts in my experience owning and working on both. The truth is the absolute WORST semi-autos that Sig, H&K, Walther, Beretta or Glock makes today are more reliable than the best semi-autos made 40 years ago, by far. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. , 54 people all shooting themselves. 3) If the sear fails, there is the drop safety in the way of the striker. The Hide Armory. The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. TTAG talked to Bagnell, who told us that he wants it to be known that he is not anti-gun and doesnt want to see more gun control laws in this country. saw the video, doesnt explain how it bypasses striker pin safety. (unless theyre SWAT or something). This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. But breaking news here, skippy. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). People who know how to handle guns prudently and safely. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. PDs are dropping them from contracts. With Biden spending outrageous amounts of money, whats 100 million here or there? The Government mandated it to be made more safe to use and was. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. It was one of the first ones and was sent back as a voluntary upgrade. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. L. LRRifleman . Anyway around here they do. Canadian soldier. JTF-2 is the only unit in. Golly didnt Sig catch he!! At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. I have no idea. Folks disagree on brands. Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. And the idea some random comment section P320 hater thinks theyre smarter & more knowledgeable than the Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard and Marine Corp combined regarding military pistol selection is just freaking laughable! No autographs, No self taken pictures. Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? Excellent work. How about something more relevant. ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. You arent a gunfighter, either. Plastic crap! You couldnt ask questions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. Ditto; that's what i was getting at earlier Bear007 Custom Aug 25, 2021 #18 The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. Is it? Not sure why it wont let me reply to you, but Ill reply to myself in the hope youll get it. Yes, conspiracy to defraud is a thing when ones @ss is on the line. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. Before the madness SIGS were expensive. And thats just my opinion. He wasnt aware of it until contacted earlier this week by CBC News and suggested it was relevant in ongoing litigation in the U.S. We look forward to reviewing the incident in discovery in the United States, he said Friday. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. Where is that defect now? Thats SIGs term for a recall. Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. A shame but then no one was hurt. Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. The one officer in the ABC story had it wrapped in a rag in his gym bag? He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. It was expensive. Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. The safety WILL prevent the gun from firing with a trigger pull when activated, but it should never come to that. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. The new guy sucks. My trust for Sig stopped after they produced the beloved Sig556xi Russian. What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! Why you and I are arguing over a gun that neither owns or will own, Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. The weapons are currently on the shelf and the soldiers have returned to using their older model SIG P226s. Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. So the tally goes against the surrounding area, not against the gun free zone. It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. Just 3 days ago, a Florida Corrections recruit killed herself by a negligent discharge during firearms training. In 2021 you would think a company would understand MIM metallurgy. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. 2. The fact that Shatner was doing Wrath of Kahn meet and greets at 90 years old kind of soured me. 1:07. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched.
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